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Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
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 Author: almilligan
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:58 pm 
Western is increasing out-of-state tuition and fees. For 6 hours or less, undergraduates will have their tuition and fees increased from $285.o4 to $313.14 and graduates will have theirs increased from $300.38 to $330.77.

A three credit online class will cost an out-of- state undergraduate $1,029.42 and a graduate $1,112.31.

An out-of-state graduate student at Eastern for a 3 credit class online is charged only $858.

If Western wants to be competitive in the online market perhaps they should be thinking of decreasing the cost of online classes instead of increasing.

President Shepard has stated that the future on education is online. The only thing Western can compete in really is cost.


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 Author: samarpan
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:58 pm 
There are probably several other factors... besides cost... that could make WNMU competitive, like the program curriculum strength, like trained faculty who provide a supportive virtual classroom learning environment, like the course delivery methods used, like the Information Technology Dept. support provided to both students and faculty, etc.

When these things happen and word gets around, the higher cost is justified, and students will enroll.


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 Author: Bruce
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 4:34 pm 
Samarpan, I am not sure whether you are raising a question or stating an opinion. Yes, online courses with superior curriculum, superior faculty, and superior technology for virtual classrooms would be worth more. But are you saying that WNMU has these things? I have heard that Western has updated virtual classroom technology, but I haven't heard that they have better classes taught by better faculty. Such a claim would be encouraging.

Bruce


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 Author: samarpan
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:45 pm 
Bruce, I do not know if WNMU is superior, but it is cheaper than many other universities and colleges. WNMU is competing globally with both public and private institutions in the virtual space. WNMU is less expensive compared to fully online institutions like Brookline College (Albuquerque) and Ashford University (San Diego).

The numbers Al has given range from $285 to $330 (per credit hour?) for online classes. At Ashford University online classes are $452 per credit hour (undergraduate) and $589 per credit hour (graduate)... which Ashford describes as "affordable tuition." https://www.ashford.edu/tuition-financial-aid

At Brookline College in Albuquerque, "Tuition for the Bachelor of Science – Nursing and Nursing for Baccalaureate Degree is charged each semester on a per credit hour basis at the rate of: $696.72/per credit hour." That's more than twice the WNMU online course tuition. http://brooklinecollege.edu/reporting-a ... -and-fees/

WNMU is a bargain.


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 Author: almilligan
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 4:18 pm 
When it comes to online programs, Western has a big advantage its online Masters of Social Work program accredited by the Council on Social Work Education. There are only 37 other schools in the US that have accredited online MSW programs. Other schools costs vary from about $400 to over $1,000 per credit. Western is one of the least expensive. No other school in New Mexico is accredited. The MSW degree is very popular because many social workers work for governmental agencies and a masters degree gets you a raise in pay.

The online MSW program at Western is responsible for the large increase in graduate FTEs in the last two years. Graduate FTEs in 2014 were 357, increasing to 501 in 2015 and to 533 in 2016. An increase of 176 or a 49% increase. Unfortunately, there was a decrease in undergraduate FTEs from 1,864 in 2014 to 1,614 in 2016 a decrease of 250 or a 13% decrease. Overall FTEs have decreased by 75 from 2014 to 2016 or a 3% decrease. This was in spite of the University spending about a million dollars a year in marketing.

If the University were really interested in increasing their income and if they were innovative they would take advantage of the demand for MSW degrees and increase only the cost of a credit in the MSW program to about $400. They would still be one of the lowest costs and could still fill up the program. Western is bared from offering the MSW degree in some of the most populated states such as California and Florida.

Some say Western is less expensive. It all depends to which schools you compare the costs. Western is less expensive to most private schools but if you compare Western to the other comprehensive schools in New Mexico Western is by far the most expensive in face to face classes and in online classes. The fee for online classes at Western is $30 a credit for undergraduate and $40 a graduate credit. Highlands charges $10 a credit for both and Eastern charges $17 for both. Western makes about $750,000 a year on online fees.

If Western wants to be competitive in areas other than the MSW program, increasing the tuition for part time out-of-state students is the wrong decision.


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 Author: samarpan
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:11 am 
Looking at the top 15 CSWE online MSW programs, in terms of value received for money spent, WNMU is a national leader and a state leader. WNMU comes in ahead of 13 other "best value" CSWE-accredited MSW online programs. No other college or university in the State of New Mexico (comprehensive or otherwise) even makes the top 15 ranking. WNMU is the only university in New Mexico on the list.

Top 15 MSW Online Programs 2016
http://www.bestvalueschools.com/cheap/o ... -programs/

Methodology: "These [15] online colleges are all accredited and tout impressive acknowledgements from U.S. News, College Prowler, and other top education websites. But more importantly, these colleges are also the 15 most affordable online MSW programs available in the United States. According to College Navigator, the approximate annual cost of these graduate programs range from just $24,000 down to a mere $6,000. We ranked the colleges from most to least expensive, assessing public institutions based on the average of their in-state and out-of-state rates."

The only reason Louisiana State University comes in first, and WNMU second, is because LSU does not have out-of-state tuition rates.

WNMU is a bargain.


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 Author: almilligan
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:15 am 
samarpan: You need to make a qualifier to your statement "Western is a bargain".

Western is a bargain if you're interested in an accredited online master of social work program.


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 Author: samarpan
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:02 pm 
WNMU tuition per credit hour costs about one-third of the national average. WNMU undergraduate programs for in-state students is $196.91 (combined tuition and fees) per credit hour. The national average for a college credit comes out to $594.46, according to Department of Education tuition data, if you consider the average cost per credit hour for colleges across every sector (including private and public, for-profit and not-for-profit, and two- and four-year colleges).

WNMU is a four-year public university. Comparing apples to apples, the national average for four-year, public universities is $324.70 per credit hour. Eastern NM University, which Al cited, is $269.25, Highlands is $241.85 per credit hour for in-state undergraduates. The majority of students, 80% at NM universities, are in-state undergraduates.

WNMU's $196.91 is a good buy, a real deal, a steal. WNMU has made the right decision in setting its tuition and fees (combined) at $196.91 for the majority of its students. WNMU's current tuition is reasonable, and way below the national average of $324.70 for comprehensive four-year institutions of its kind.

WNMU is a bargain.


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 Author: almilligan
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:13 pm 
samarpam: To make Western a bargain you're using the same argument many times used by the University administration, comparing different items.

While tuition at Western is $193.63,(does not include fees) the costs you used for Eastern and Highlands includes tuition and fees.

The actual per hour cost at Western is:

Tuition...163.63
Fees...82.24
Administration fee...6.88
Total per hour tuition and fees per hour $252.75.

You need to get your numbers right.

One of the other things to consider is that now a days full time students are encouraged to take 15 credits a semester. 15 credits at Eastern and Highlands cost 12 times the hourly rate while at Western 15 hours cost 13.5 times the hourly cost.

Western is a bargain when compared to private schools, but so are most state schools.


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 Author: samarpan
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:00 pm 
Al, I am providing sources for my WNMU numbers and the WNMU costs are below the national average for four-year, public universities ($324.70 per credit hour national average). The numbers I cite come from WNMU and they include fees.

For face-to-face classes (80% of students in NM) I am referring to Summer 2017 costs. The WNMU web site says $196.91 for one credit includes fees: "Summer 2017 Tuition & Fees (combined)"
http://businessaffairs.wnmu.edu/cashier ... _0026-fees

For Fall 2017 online programs, for a 15 credit course load the WNMU web site says: Total tuition & fees = $3862.13 or $257.48
http://online.wnmu.edu/tuition/ That is also below the national average for four-year, public universities.

In your original post you say of WNMU: three credit online class will cost an out-of- state undergraduate $1,029.42

At NMSU that same three credit course (Fall 2017) would cost a non-resident $875.90 per credit hour or $2,627.70, more than twice WNMU.
http://hr.nmsu.edu/uar/wp-content/uploa ... osed_3.pdf

Western is a bargain when compared to private schools.
Western is a bargain when compared to other state schools.

Since you are not citing your sources, I don't know where you are getting your figures for fees. Not all fees are obligatory. It depends on the academic program. If I were to add up all the NMSU fees and announce them as costs to students, it would be misleading. For example:

NMSU FEES (beyond tuition costs)

ASNMSU Fee (Fall/Spring 1 – 11 credit enrollment) 33.50
ASNMSU Fee (Summer 1 – 8 credit enrollment) 12.40
Certificate Degree Fee 10.00
Course Examination Fee - Undergraduate (per credit) 206.50
Course Examination Fee - Graduate (per credit) 227.10
Degree Application Fee (Undergraduate) 25.00
Degree Application Fee (Graduate) 35.00
Degree Application Fee – Late Filing 25.00
Engineering Tech Fee (ENGR College Enrolled, 12 + credits) 145.00
Graduate Admission Application Fee 40.00
Graduate Wellness/Fitness Fee (Fall/Spring 9-11 credit enrollment) 159.30
Graduate Wellness/Fitness Fee (Summer 8 credit enrollment) 141.60
International Student Admission Fee 50.00
International Student Orientation Fee 50.00
International Undergraduate Student Program Fee 36.00
Las Cruces Course Delivery Fee for Online Courses $35 per credit
Late Registration Fee 25.00
New Student Orientation Fee 40.00
Return Items Fee (per item) 25.00
Payment Plan Fee (per unpaid bill due date) 10.00
Thesis Binding Fee (3 copies) 38.50
Thesis Binding Molecular Biology/Astronomy Majors (4 copies) 48.50
http://uar.nmsu.edu/tuition-fees/unders ... tion-fees/

Western is a bargain when compared to private schools.
Western is a bargain when compared to other state schools.


Last edited by samarpan on Wed May 24, 2017 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Author: Bruce
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:38 pm 
Price is certainly an issue when discussing a "bargain" in education. But if you don't have good teachers or if the subject can't be effectively taught remotely or if the course is poorly designed and doesn't cover the information needed, there is no bargain. You may be getting a bargain degree, but are you getting a bargain education? Do you have any chance of getting a job in your field and if you do, will you actually be able to perform it?

Those questions are the ones I want answered in considering online degrees. Are online-educated social workers (or counselors or whatever) effective?

Bruce


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 Author: almilligan
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:42 pm 
For accurate information on Western's tuition and fees I refer you to the April 24,2017 Regent's meeting where the tuition and fees for the 2017-18 academic year were set.

Bruce: The jury is still out on the effectiveness of online education. There aren't enough only online graduates to get reasonable feedback from employers. The students I've talked to were not very happy with their online experience. One of the big problems with online education is that you don't make the contacts you make in a face to face class.

Online classes must not cost very much to put on since there are several places on the internet offering college level classes free. Arizona State will even give you credit for a limited number of free classes if you pay them $400 an hour. One of these days a disrupter will offer online classes from an accredited college for $100 an hour and the whole face of education will change.


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 Author: samarpan
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:53 pm 
Bruce, I have never seen an announcement for a position available that specifies it is important where you studied. The important thing is that you have successfully studied, learned skills, and received the degree that is a requirement for the position. If you don't have the degree, from WNMU or wherever you got it, your application may not even be considered.

Here are some answers to your questions from "It Doesn't Matter Where You Go to College" by Michael Bernick. [emphasis added]

"Today, whether you go to college retains some importance in your employment options. But where you go to college is of almost no importance. Whether your degree, for example, is from UCLA or from less prestigious Sonoma State matters far less than your academic performance and the skills you can show employers.

Research on the impact of college selection has focused on comparing the earnings of graduates of different colleges. In 1999, economists Alan Krueger and Stacy Berg Dale published a widely read study that compared the earnings of graduates of elite colleges with those of “moderately selective” schools. The latter group was composed of people who had been admitted to an elite college but chose to attend another school.

The economists found that the earnings of the two groups 20 years after graduation differed little or not at all. A larger follow-up study, released in 2011 and covering 19,000 college graduates, reached a similar conclusion: whether you went to Penn or Penn State, Williams College or Miami University of Ohio, job outcomes were unaffected in terms of earnings.

Earnings are only part of the employment picture. Other measures, like job satisfaction and social value, are more difficult to quantify. In a thoughtful 2004 essay, the writer Gregg Easterbrook interviewed college officials throughout the country to assess these impacts. His conclusion: on a range of measures of job satisfaction, attendance at an elite college had little impact."

http://time.com/54342/it-doesnt-matter- ... o-college/

As to effectiveness of online courses, from personal experience I say online courses of study were more effective than my experience with in-person "face-to-face" classes at a state university, with class sizes of 200 students, taught by a teaching assistant, and with no personal interaction with the instructor and no challenge to learn anything.

In online classes my experience has been positive. Students cannot sit in the back row and hide in online classes, like is possible in face-to-face classes. The online courses I have taken made me read, think, write, interact with and respond to others, included more frequent interaction with the professor, and demanded more accountability for demonstrating my learning.

Are Online Courses as Effective as In-Person Education? by Marina Arshavskiy (March 22, 2017)
https://coursearc.com/are-online-course ... education/


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 Author: curious2
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 2:35 pm 
WNMU Board of Regents is having a special meeting on May 31st. I wonder if that is unprecedented during the summer months.


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