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 Author: JE1947
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:10 am 

Per the message received, it appears the incredible work the O'Toole's did for Monticello Box Ranch may have been eradicated.
Whichever rancher bought their land, he or she may have been "chaining" trees (two dozers or tractors use a large scale logging chain attached one to each end). The chains are pulled through various forms of brush and trees ... junipers often ... and the trees are uprooted. With the trees uprooted, all the water catching features their root systems may have gained from decades, is lost. The land is more open so cattlemen can run more cattle on the land.

I have not been through there for four years. It used to be a lovely, inspiring drive. I know one of the names mentioned. That rancher was very adamant about anyone parking along the road and exploring. Verbotten. If the road that runs up through Cañada Alamosa is a tenuous drive now, then access to the Warm Springs may not be possible. For anyone.

The "reservation" that had been surveyed for the Chihenne N'de Apaches in the 1870s was nixed because ranchers and miners were already flooding into the area post Civil War. This happened in the Mangas Creek area, as well. Dr. Michael Steck, a man who had some principles, and worked with the variety of Apache bands in NM & AZ territories ... had taken the initial steps to have another reservation surveyed for the Mangas group. Mangas was assassinated by vicious soldiers under the command, overall,of Gen. Carleton. I believe he commission a Col. West to make sure "that old man does not see the light of day." Mangas was provoked into what could be labeled "an attempt to escape."

The Mangas Coloradas story is available in most detail in Edwin Sweeney's "Mangas" book.

The fact that Cañada Alamosa may be restricted access is heart breaking. To me, it shows that short term positive forces, such as the former owners, Denny and Trudy O'toole, can be wiped away by two bulldozers and chains. Sedimentation occurs, of course, when there are fewer trees and the ground washes in heavy rains, snow melt, or floods. The cañon has endured enormous floods in the last ten years.

I'd have to say: this shows to me a vengeance that some folks have towards restoration, renewal, preservation. If this statement is true, then this could be a strong lesson for those who wish to preserve the Gila. There is a viciousness about cutting u a river for short term gains. If law suits or efforts to call out the "diversionistas" can be made, repeatedly, the side of preservation likely has sound analysis, science, facts they can use. It will be a delaying action.

Inevitably, forces to use up every resource available to run a few hundred head of cattle more ... will continue to be a powerful force ... none of that will matter in the long game. Mother Earth, I believe, is a self-balancing living being. She will constantly seek to rebalance. Humans will disappear in the most extreme case. A book, "The Mini-Ice Age" describes a 500 year occurrence that engulfed Europe and likely affected life in the United States as well.

Locally, what efforts are being made to forestall cutting up the Gila are worth every measure of support.

I'll work with John to publish more photos. If a picture is worth a thousand words, then I've been shooting photos of water for 14 years. Water is life.

 Author: lastnoel
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:19 am 
The good work and the trust of the local community and the archaeological community, were shattered in the week it took to put the place on the market and sign the papers. The locals who had worked for years to protect the canyon from the mine that wants to turn red paint canyon (the sacred source of the red clay) into a huge hole, feel betrayed. It was part of the space we all lived in and shared with the World. A drive up to the Springs was magical.

Carl Laumbaugh, the former state SHIPO and the PI for the Canada Alamosa Institute (the O'Toole's Foundation that ran the digs) had left many artifacts at the sites, feeling that the O'Tooles would honor their statements that the 4000 acre ranch would be put into a conservation instrument to be protected and set aside. This Canyon is an incredible archaeological resource, a home for people for the last 10,000 years +. It is filled with artifacts of both the Mimbres and Apache people.

When the Mescalero and Warm Springs people attended the mine meeting in Monticello to declare that area Sacred ground in order to protect it, the deal was that the locals would find a way to buy the land surrounding the springs from Tey Sullivan who was promoting the mine. In this way, the land would be protected for everyone. The O'tools, very wealthy old Philadelphia money, who could have bought it with their pocket change, refused even though it abutted their ranch. The native people again experienced the betrayal of the white man.

Many people have been devastated by the loss of this piece of History and place. Jerry, more than most, understands the treasures that abound in that place. Thanks Jerry for sharing your vast knowledge and experiences with us. You, Sherry R, Carl, Siggy Jumper and many others have kept the story and our history alive.

In the old ways, a betrayal of this magnitude would have been met with expulsion from the group. Now they move to Sante Fe and do the cocktail circuit. Rich people do not think like everyone else.

"the West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion
but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget
this fact, non-Westerners never do."
Samuel P. Huntington

 Author: gila honey
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:52 pm 
My opinion is that contrary to popular opinion the West was won by drunkards and criminals with s sprinkling of honest folks, who wanted a government handout. l have been to the Sacred site many times. The Government should give the land back to its rightful inhabitants.


"All you need is LOVE"

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