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 Author: JE1947
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:00 pm 
I have some photos I've worked with John on that are waiting for me to write a brief article that will fit.

I believe they are of a place named Ojo Caliente. Warm Spring. But I've been there many times, and there are actually two warm springs. One is not known by many, but within say, 5-800 yards of the other. The Ojo Caliente I've visited are two. One way north, which is a kind of spa, I think in Rio Arriba County. I'm sure that those were used by upper NM Jicarilla Apaches, Navajos,etc. There may be another, off to the west of say, Acoma, but I've never been there. The Warm Springs I'm talking about are off the Monticello Box, off the Rio Alamosa, Cañada Alamosa. Monticello is to the north and west of T or C. It is the homeland of the Chihenne N'de (Red Paint People (N'de) of the Na Dine Group of Dine Athapaskan speakers. They came down from the Bering Straits thousands of years ago. As they peeled off and down the continental divide ... in Alaska, Canada, into what became those places and the lower 48 ... they sometimes went EAST of the Rockies .... sometimes WEST of the Rockies. The Athapaskan speakers (Navajo and Apache) made it into New Mexico and Arizona. To the North, and East, were Ute-Uto-Aztecan speakers such as Commanche and Utes. Uto Aztecan Speakers, of course, were also the Aztecs.

The Jicarilla, Lipan, and Kiowa Apaches are in northern New Mexico or eastern New Mexico; west Texas; south as far as the Big Bend area of Texas (Lipan); and Western Oklahoma.

Sherry Robinson, my friend, wrote an excellent book about Apache women, "Apache Voices." She spent another decade that I've known here writing "I Fought A Good Fight," about the Lipan Apaches.

My area of concentration is only the Chiricahua Apaches WEST of the Rio Grande, EAST of Benson; no farther north than Zuni Salt Lake-Socorro-down along the west flank of the Rio Grande to El Paso; WEST to include all of SW New Mexico to the Arizona Border; the Peloncillos; Whitlocks; Grahams; Chiricahuas; Swisshelms; Big and Little Burros; Hatchets; Animas; Floridas; Tres Hermanas; Dragoons; Dos Cabezas; Mustangs; Whetstones; Cedars; Tillie Halls; Mogollons; Black Range; Mimbres; Cooke's Range. These are the homelands of the Bedonkohe Apaches (smallest group of Chiricahua Band); Mimbres, Coppermine Apaches ... Mangas Coloradas' Apaches; Pelonillos, Blues and San Francisco River Country of Arizona, as well as the Rio Tulerosa, east of Aragon and Reserve, NM; Chokonen ... Chiricahua that are best represented by Cochise's band; the Red Paint (the Ojo Caliente area where the famous warm springs are located, to include the Black Range, Las Uvas, Floridas, etc). That is a group best represented by Loco, Victorio, Nana, Cuchillo Negro; Lozen; Delgadito.

A group south of the American line with Chihuahua and Sonora holds the N'de N'ai. (Nednai). They were best represented by Juh, a fierce and savvy warrior. They are called "the wild Apaches" by other Apaches, so they are kind of like, to me, "hard core Viet Cong." Serious dudes. And dudettes. They were way into the mountains of Mexico, and some of them held out until approx. 1930, when the very last were hunted down, killed, and beheaded. See Granville Goodwin and his son's work.

I have posted lots of photos I've taken for 14 years of Apacheria.

Most are on Facebook. I've posted a number that try to reflect my sense of a phrase the Apache used .... "we moved like the wind" ... [Geronimo] ... and "we have moved from water to water." [Chihuahua, Apache warrior and leader]. Both phrases come from the surrender talks at Cañon de los Embudos, Chihuahua, Mexico, March, 1886. The statement "we moved like the wind ... from water to water ..." I believe, best summarizes the movement and natural rotation the Apaches made over these lands that are so arid and harsh.

My articles are @
http://www.desertexposure.com/apacheria.
http://www.hikingapacheria.com
and FACEBOOK, Jerry Eagan.

I've tried to stand for allowing the Gila River to remain free. I do not want the Gila River to be diverted and hence, my term,
"diversionistas." If you like that, use it.

Sort of like "cartelistas" with drug lords. Diversion lords. Who wish to cut up the Gila. The Gila, as I believe, is much more than just what we see as the Gila. That Gila does have three major forks (all of which I've hiked), but hundreds of side streams and headwaters. I just posted some of Beavercreek, which is a head water of the East Fork. It is very special. Beneath our earth, I imagine is a vast spiderweb of water sources intermingling and connected, like the veins of our bodies.

I think of the labyrinth of fibers that are all at the base of a tree, but one tree among many, where all those mingle together into a symbiotic relationship. Start cutting that up, you cause death somewhere. I guess the 60s, too many psychedelics, dope, booze, war, etc., toasted my brain. (I've been sober 33 years now). Once that damage was done, and the idea of Gaia and Mother Earth came into play, I was screwed.

So, I can't do six different things. I want to start writing "Hiking Apacheria" stuff ... but I realize, with 20,000 photos, at least, and many of them related to the water I've found out there ... everywhere ... and it IS possible, in rainy season, if you have a hand trowel, to dig down a foot or two into wet sand ... and strike water ... I do have some stuff most people have never seen. There's not enough time left for me to take people to these places. I don't anyway. For whatever reason, I believe Apache spirits have wanted to show me things. But not to show many others. There are ways to find these places. Ask around. But, for what it's worth, I will try to post more photos. Just getting used to how done here.

My Facebook is there for looking at more than just Apacheria stuff, though. Lots of different things.

If people have questions about Apacheria, I'd say: write them to John, or however he wants that to work. I will try to answer.
I do not claim to be an expert. I just have walked and found and observed, photographed, meditated, prayed, and taken time to consider myself a lucky dude. One guy shot me; two tried to kill me in Nov, 66, in Vietnam. There were plenty of other close calls before that. Since, near death. Death of my Dearable wife, Dorothy, who also hiked with me for awhile. The stuff we have around us is just off the chart when one allows oneself to let it sink in.

More power to those who are trying to save The Gila. I've been kind of "out of it" for three plus years with near death, serious health problems, death, loss, more loss, and am just now trying to hike quietly with a friend or two. It's important, I think, to NOT mark these places with GPS. The Apaches got to these places from oral testimony. WE draw maps, they probably did, too. WE have topo maps and BLM maps, to more accurately get a "ball park" idea of where "something is." But often, we've been guided. Generally, only by one or two others.

This is a throwback to previous, earlier times.The end goal isn't a place to trash, dump your cans at, cigarette butts, mark up, chisel away, spray paint with grafitti (seen all), dump waste and trash and not pack it out ... or, broadcast (at least this is my opinion) to the world. Why? They're private, privileged places ... who KNOWS whether the spirits of those people are there or not?

What if they are????? How would YOU feel if jerks came to a special, sacred place YOU had, that was of or from your larger family group. And how you'd bonded with folks who have long since gone. People who made you laugh. Or cry? Or start telling stories about others ... who had been people who'd taken them somewhere special ... isn't that a form of reincarnation? To bring Great Great Great Grandfather John Agan back ... we who never knew him ... but I think, my Grandfather told me a story, when I was four or five ... about Leprechauns rolling potatoes off a wagon when it was raining and thundering ... boom ... booom .... booom ... onto a wooden floor ... and the sounds were Thunder that was scaring me ... we were sitting on a porch swing ... he hardly ever talked ... very quiet guy ... swinging ... we smelled the rain coming in ... the wind ... at some point, it was too much for me ... imagine my amazement when my sister said that they had encountered a half brother's family ... John Agan in his early years out of Ireland ... sometime around 1850 ... had married, wife died ... left kids with in laws as he had to move and work on canals ... never even knew this had happened until the sisters began digging ... who WAS John Agan, 1822, 1909? And this old modern guy had said: Oh, I remember hearing what were "John Agan Leprechaun stories" for IRRRE land. It hit me! My Grandfather Eagan was the son of a man who knew John Agan. Grew up around John Agan. Not his father, though. Complicated. But Grandfather Eagan must've heard leprechaun stories!!!!

And I heard them, too. Just one that I remember. Associated with the smells of rain. Strong stuff, stories associated with smell. Movement.

Whoa! So, for what it's worth,the Gila River is a majestic body of water that's fed by thousands of ribbons of liquid UNDER ground, that we rarely see. Occasionally, at certain times, it will burst out.

Such is the water flow at Ojo Caliente, on the Rio Alamosa, Cañada Alamosa. You can drive east to west or west to east, and it is quite a trip. But there are plenty of places to see the Gila and it's watershed.

For now.

Enough. Sorry. The photos are there on FBook, mainly. There will be more. Glad we got some of that $126 million or whatever before it's all used up for short term gains. The Gila will never be the same if it is diverted. Not in our lifetimes. Mother Earth will reclaim all. Send questions to John, I guess. I'll try to answer if I can. Not an expert. Really.

http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=1424023
"The Alamosa Creek Basin upstream from Monticello Box has an area of about 400 square
miles. The basin is bounded on the northwest by the San Agustin Basin, on the northeast by the
San Mateo Mountains, and on the southwest by the Continental Divide. The basin consists of an
alluvial valley that has a range in altitude from about 6,200 to 7,000 feet above sea level and is
surrounded by mountains that have altitudes as much as 8,500 feet above sea level on the
southwest and as much as 10,000 feet above sea level on the northeast. Alamosa Creek at
Monticello Box flows out of the basin at an average annual rate of 8.3 cubic feet per second. The
flow is derived from several hot and cold springs and runoff from precipitation and snowmelt."

8.3 cubic feet, per second! Still. Perhaps ALWAYS!!


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 Author: lastnoel
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:29 am 
Great info, thanks. The road from the village of Monticello up to the road to Dusty has been closed by Socorro Cty. Sierra was going to close their section but community pressure stopped them. The O'Tooles who owned the Box Ranch sold out to a cattle rancher who is chaining trees to get more grass and with the Coils pushed for the closing. The dark forces have moved into the upper canyon. This rancher has family ties that go back to when the local ranchers went up into the San Mateos and killed Masai (the so called Apache Kid) who escaped from the train carrying the Warms Springs people et al to Florida. He had been living in the mountains for sometime with his wife and another escapee until they were hunted down and killed. Their heads were cut off, de-skinned and sent to the Smithsonian.

The beat goes on . . .

"Let us not look back in anger, nor forward in fear, but around us in awareness." - James Thurber


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Silver City & Southwestern New Mexico Monthly Community Calendar

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Community Events
Week of November 22, 2017

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22
Arte Chicano de San Vicente @ SC Museum
Hapkido Class
Insight Buddhist Meditation
Tai Chi Chuan
Gin Rummy
Wednesday Evening Al-Anon Family Group Meeting
23
Arte Chicano de San Vicente @ SC Museum
Our Paws' Cause Thrift Store
Volunteer at The Bike Works 3-7pm
Tai Chi at Lotus Center
Blooming Lotus Meditation
Pet Central Thrift Store
Our Paws' Cause Thrift Store
24
Arte Chicano de San Vicente @ SC Museum
Qi Gung for Health at the Lotus Center
Fiber Arts Collective's Holiday Fiber Art Sale
Holiday Fiber Art Sale
Women's Al-Anon Meeting: Women Embracing Recovery
Pet Central Thrift Store
Hapkido Class
Community Bike Ride @ The Bike Works
Our PAws' Cause Thrift Store
25
Arte Chicano de San Vicente @ SC Museum
Tai Chi Chuan
Fiber Arts Collective's Holiday Fiber Art Sale
Shop Small Saturday
Lighted Christmas Parade
Ecstatic Dance
26
Arte Chicano de San Vicente @ SC Museum
New Hope Al-Anon Family Group
27
Hapkido Class
Tai Chi Chuan
Laughter Yoga at 1 p.m. at the Lotus Center
28
Arte Chicano de San Vicente @ SC Museum
Silver City Rotary Club Meeting
International Folk Dancing
Hapkido Class
Compassionate Friends Gathering
Tai Chi at Lotus Center
Wine & The Word @The Toad Brewery
Creative Writing for Beginners-free workshop
ToSC Council Meeting- Agenda
Our Paws' Cause Thrift Store










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