-Gila Region Community News, Calendar, Forum-

Reader Supported Silver City News & SW New Mexico, Grant County NM, Gila NF
* Login   * Register

* FAQ    * Search

All times are UTC - 7 hours

News     Columns     Food: Growing, Fixing     Features     Water     Health     Business     Education     DIY & How-tos     Classifieds     Forum     Home 

Silver City Food Coop



We Are Reader Supported
Your recurring contribution goes to support the Forum, Calendar, and Email List, which exists to further local, sustainable, place-based community.
MONTHLY RECURRING GIFT
    Bill Me Now For: $

ONE-TIME GIFT
Bill Me Now For: $

You may also mail a check or cash to
John Crow
PO Box 1792
Silver City, N.M. 88062


Get your ad here








Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ] 
Author ------ Message
 Author: crow
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:23 pm 
Image
Look close at the eyes, careful not deeply lest you become lost in the empty void; steel yourself from the sub-audible siren screech that banishes deep thought and analysis; or perhaps it's just a madman raging; not worry his heirs are by his side and the growing, deepening swamp will protect and suckle him.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: almilligan
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:23 am 
According to TV news 2 of Trump's electors voted for someone else, but 4 of Clinton's electors voted for someone else. So Trump lost 2, but Clinton lost 4. Strange.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: JE1947
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:45 pm 
Yeah, I just saw one of those pap statements that if the Trumpistas could stand eight years of Obama,I can stand four years of trump.
Trump recently announced he's inclinded to adapt a foreign policy posture of "The Mad Man," or some such crap ... fashioned initially by Nixon during the Vietnam War. Nixon however, as much of a sociopath as he was, he had competent military, diplomatic and intelligence officials who could and did advise him constantly.

He indicated that when he decided to bomb the hell out of Haiphong & Hanoi, drop aerial mines in Haiphong Harbord, using B-=52s to do the bombing, Ho Chi Minh would be back at the peace negotiation table in two weeks. Nixon was coming off six years or so of the Vietnam War, and thousands of dead, wounded, missing on the Allied side. How many North Vietnamese were killed, wounded, or died is hard to estimate. Most likely around 1,000,000.

The use of B-52s was controversial, because they each carried 33 tons of bombs. I saw one sortie across a dense jungle valley in October, 1966, and saw the bombs coming through the clouds. The shock waves behind that line of bombs smacking the mountain across from us was unbelievable in power. However, what many do not know is that during this bombing campaign, Nixon was running out of B-52s. They were strategic bombers in Strategic Air Command (SAC). The missiles that were thick as gnats over Hanoi & Haiphong were likely to have attrited the B-52 fleet within another week or two. There's no doubt that the bombing & mining achieved a goal for Nixon. HOWEVER, Trump has said he eschews daily intelligence briefings cause they bore him.

Contained within those daily intelligence briefings were some tidbits that Nixon could evaluate (he had a good mind) such as: we know that the North Vietnamese are recei ing x number of replacements for their SAM missiles. We know that the work is wearing our bomber pilots and crews down. We have x number of days left before the tactical use of B-52s will start to attrit bombers from the Strategic Mission. China and Russia were both dangerous threats to our well being, as it was the cold war.

Trump has bragged he is one of the smartest people on earth. To not monitor the Daily Intelligence Briefing could lead him to miss that estimate of time left for using the big bombers.

He has said he wants to carpet bomb ISIS. And kill entiere families of terrorists. Use torture again. He WILL not have a problem getting us into a war, for instance, with North Korea. I was in South Korea 65=66. It is cold there. -30 to -50. Fighting in Korea would be brutal. I'd much rather have fought in the jungles of Vietnam.But North Korea has a dingbat like Trump. I'd say: if you're the parent of a male or female who will reach 18=26 inn the next four years, you'd better prepare yourself for those kinds going to war. A nuclear exchange (even a very limited one), on the Korean Peninsula, will stress our climate in ways all the tests conducted in the 1950s and 1960s,never did. The nuclear fallout will circle the globe and soon, it will have some effects that I imagine the Pentagon has run out in scenarios. It won't be good. The climate is far more fragile now that 50 years ago.

So, yeah, all this crap about if I could live with Obama for eight, you can live with Trum for four ...I don't buy it. The guy is a malignant narcissistic sociopathic serial sexual predator. He is running up one of the most business oriented cabinets in history. Some of his nominees HATE the agencies they will be leading. Newt Gingrich says: go after the Government bureauracy with a buzz saw. And start with the VA.

Been compensabile disabled since 1969: gunshot wound; malaria; PTSD. The VA is easy to whack around. Congress could make their job easier by not having more wars. Trump I believe, WILL bring us to the brink of war, if not actual war, because he is so stupid. And a sociopath. Donald Trump's mind is like a room where every possible space inside it has various types of letter with the word "Trump" there. In bangles, diamonds, gold, glitz, but ONLY the Word TRUMP. Never, ask what God's will might be for this or that? Or, what about the 340,000,000 Americans you now have as minions? Nope. Only T R U M P. That is the mind of a malignant narcissist such as we have never seen before in our history.

So, fasten your seat belts. These four will NOT be anything at all like Obama's eight.

Most of us know that the big deal from the beginning with Obama was he was black. Say what you might. He was black. They couldn't say the "N" word, so they used, "Kenyan," and "Muslim," and "he can't be our President as he's not a citizen." Donald Trump rolled with that. No one else rolled with it as did Donald Trump. Isn't that a shame. It is to me.

Yep, 18-26 is the range for a Draft. There IS a modern version of the DRAFT. It isn't at all friendly as the last. I just hope that God intervenes on this moron somehow. But, there's no guarantee of benign intervention ... Trump won't be impressed by God. Not in the least.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: almilligan
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:13 pm 
I remember back to the Goldwater vs LBJ election. The demo said about Goldwater “ in your heart you know he’s crazy”. And LBJ said “ I’m not going to send American boys 16,000 miles to fight a war that should be fought by Asian boys”.

What happened when LBJ won, we were put into a long war with a no win strategy. You can’t tell what a president will do until he gets the power. And you can't depend on anything they say during the campaign.

I say let’s not spend all our energy complaining what Trump might do and save it for something he actually does.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: crow
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:28 pm 
Defeat the elite was a common campaign lie yet here he is filling his cabinet with Mit the "King of Outsourcing" Romney or maybe the CEO of Exxon-mobile which is being sued for covering up and lying about their own, years old study, that proved their product was destroying the planet, or the Dept of Labor with a fast food mogul that would destroy the minimum wage or replace his slaves with robots rather than paying one cent more or the man chosen for HUD who believes being poor is a choice, whats he going to do when Dept of Labor blocks a living wage? Or a Secretary of Education who advocates for private, for profit schools and christian Madrasas? Need I go on?

I've seen and heard enough of what he wants to do and who he wants to do it and he hasn't even been crowned yet.

And Jerry- "Trump won't be impressed by God." Indeed, he'll try to grab her pussy like he likes to brag about, 'caus he da prez and can do whatever he wants; or maybe she'll be an old crone and he'll have her thrown out.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: JE1947
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:59 am 
Goldwater made plenty of statements that led rational folks to assume the nuclear option was viable for him.
LBJ, who more or less, worked the Vietnam War, for all people have said about him, agonized over the loss of those he sent to Vietnam in a way

I doubt very sincerely would/will even enter the mind of Donald Trump.

I look back on the shift to suck up to the Dixiecrats that deserted the Democratic Party by the MILLIONS as the start of the journey to a racist, ethnocentric, xenophobic, anti-Mexican, anti-Muslim, unfriendly to women Party. That journey eventually brought us to a candidate who spoke what the average racist couldn't say: Obama is an "N."

Instead, the fastened onto: "He's a Kenyan." Or, he's a Muslim. Or, he was raised by a communist sympathizer. Or, he's not an American. Or,
"He wasn't raised the way the rest of us were in America." That last one was from Lindsay Graham. And of course, Trump became fixated on Obama was a Kenyan. And so it went. In rooms of like minded, I can imagine what the REAL sentiments were about Obama.

When Obama was elected, on the night of his inauguration, the Repugnicans held a big soiree, and Mitch McConnell proudly stated his job was to see that Obama was never re-elected.

The Obama's are fine folks. He managed to not get us engaged in another war where masses of Americans are sent to fight in the Middle East ... somewhere.

Trump is a plutocrat. He will try & suck dry every social program that WE ALL rely on ... Medicare; Social Security, and Obama Care. There is no heart to the sentiments within the GOP that drive gutting every agency in the government.

I fought in Vietnam. I wonder how many post here who can say, "I, too, fought in Vietnam." There were millions who managed to get deferments in a rotten Draft system. That wasn't my problem ... I enlisted. From where I sit, all the legislation LBJ carried out for civil liberties out weighs what he did or didn't do in Vietnam. One thing he did not do, WAS TO USE NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

America has 8000 or so nukes. China, not sure. Russia, about 8000. The man who is in charge after 20 January is a malignant narcissist with sociopathic behaviors. You can tell when he's lying: his lips are moving.

The man who will run the country is too bored to read, or get into details. God help us. The Daily Intelligence Briefing does actually change day by day. This moron will ask a couple of gung ho crazies to interpret it for him. Watching "Zero Dark Thirty," or "Eye In The Sky," or "Syriana," or "A Most Wanted Man," shows the gritty reality of what the "Global War On Terror" is about.

Trump amazingly enough, (I was born in 1947, in Indiana, Republican State, with half the family Republican and half Democrat/half Catholic, the other half Lutheran ... ), has managed to never serve anyone or anything but TRUMP. Keep that in mind if he attempts to gut every social program we have. Keep that in mind when he twitters his way into a situation not unlike the Cuban Missile Crisis. Living 12 miles from a Strategic Air Command base, and having an uncle in SAC, who actually flew bombers to Fail Safe routinely, with nuclear weapons on board ... I knew that if a 500 kiloton bomb hit Grissom AFB, the blast, shock wave, massive fallout would toast us all in an hour or so. Because there were nukes housed at Grissom, as I learned more about Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD), I realized that it would be likelier for a 1 or 2 megaton bomb or more to be dropped on that base. My Dad was a fire fighter.

I remember asking him: if we have a nuclear war (during the Cuban Missile Crisis, when historians say we came as close as ever to actually mutual use of nuclear weapons), and you're at work, will you be able to come home to be with us, Mom and we kids? Because I already knew it wouldn't matter a damn if all the fire fighters were at work. The film, I think, "The Day After," was made during the Reagan era. It shows a megaton bomb drop on Kansas City. And the after effects.

I shudder to think that Donald Trump, the Twitter King, has all of our lives in his tiny hands. But, he will. By the time he's done, I hope to say: I was in the Resistance. We don't need to be oppositionists as resistance fighters. We just need to demand that the Democrats hold the line and question, question, question. Filibuster if they must. But above all ... remember this: human beings are in this man's hands. Many are less fortunate than I.

I got shot in Vietnam very severely. I was compensated for gunshot wound and malaria beginning 1969. I volunteered for combat, so it was a risk I took every day as an infantryman. There were many who didn't want to be there who never came home, or came home so disabled, mentally, emotionally, physically, as to be forever changed. Bush & Cheney didn't have any trouble sending volunteer service men and women on three, four, five, six tours. Rather than start the DRAFT again, they kept sending volunteers into the maw. That many tours in combat fry a person's brains.

Again, Trump could care. It's all part of a big "deal." That all this will be for him. A deal a day. And Twitter his ass off ... a fine form of communication for a man who doesn't read, thinks he's one of the smartest people "ever," and doesn't need a lot of detail. He can make up his mind easily enough.

No, watching the French TV series, "A French Village," it is obvious that we are entering a period like Vichy France. Those who support him will be collaborationists in the real sense, if they support gutting what has made America great. I won't be one of them. Our beautiful Mother Earth can only take so much ... this is not the time for someone who has Climate Change deniers to be in charge. But they are about to take charge. Turning around a complete gutting of bureaucracy is one think ... turning around a Planet that is wheezing, having serious damage to it's well being ... that can't be done "on a dime."

More of us voted not for Trump than for him. Let's remember that. Trump will be the ultimate Steve Pearce. A numbnuts no thinking company man. Pearce may have done his Vietnam time dropping bombs, napalm, whatever on Vietnamese. A job where the bombs drop and you go home ... no sense of the damage done. Trump says: "I'll carpet bomb" Syria. That's pathetic. But, they're not living people to him, and I don't think he sees us as people, either. I can only hope that the best of America isn't flushed down a toilet into a Trump cesspool. That's a hope. I don't know if that will wor or not. But, I will hope. And resist as I can. I sure as hell didn't get my right arm almost shot off for Donald Trump. He had deferments. Wow. As Kathleen Parker stated in an article in yesterday's Washington Post, "Welcome to Hell, Donald Trump."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: rearnheart
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:50 pm 
To quote Austin Powers: Yeah, baby!
Hope for the best..plan for the worst.
R


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: almilligan
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:32 pm 
You need to know campaign rhetoric when you hear it. Trump’s not going to carpet bomb anything just like Clinton would not have made public colleges free if she had been elected.

I know JE1947 saw an arc light strike but all that did was rearrange the jungle. There are some who post here that have seen the elephant.

Don’t get so excited there’s one big drag on any administration getting anything done and that the federal civil service, remember the VA.

Keep your outrage until there’s something done to be out raged about.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: YelloJeep
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:33 am 
"Keep your outrage until there’s something done to be out raged about."

Ha! ...exactly!

_________________
Steve


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."

Martin Luther King, Jr.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: rearnheart
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:46 am 
JE 1947. You have see all of the nightmares. You 'born your scars like medals', and you should. There is nothing more that can be said; you are a witness to a history that should not be forgotten.
I believe we are in a Chamberlain moment; we think there is a threatening leader we can work with so we make a treaty with our fear and say he is not so bad or his previous actions will not be his future ones. It was a mistake then...it is a mistake now.
Much of the tragic history of our time is related in this thread. It is good to have this discussion but it should have happened in October during Server Gate.
It is easy to read history but much more dangerous to live it. I hope that our present will not read like our past.
re


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: mirocook
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:36 am 
Keith Olbermann points out several ways we can resist Drumpf. One: "Never refer to him as "President."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... trump.html

Resistance!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: elektron
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:13 am 
The next few years are going to be bad. We're heading for a disaster of Biblical proportions! Old Testament, real wrath of God type stuff. Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling. Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes! The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together...mass hysteria!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: crow
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:57 pm 
Ok Al, yellowjeep and elektron, at what point would you become alarmed, maybe outraged? Would that be when the USA "Berlin" wall on the Mexican border wasn't built or If Trump stopped abusing women sexually or for their looks or for asking the hard questions? Would you become outraged if a Muslim registry, like the Nazi Jewish registry, was cancelled? Would you be outraged if Trump all of a sudden promoted a change over to wind and solar energy? Or perhaps you would be alarmed if Trump demanded human rights for all in Israel/Palestine?

If you lived in any number of countries in the middle east and Africa you already have "Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies" mostly from American Made cluster bombs and hell fire missiles. If you are a fish or coral reefs living in the seas you already live in what would be for you boiling water from heat and acids. Would you be outraged if any of this would stop?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: elektron
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:54 pm 
Naw. I just like Peter Venkman.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: JE1947
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:26 pm 
The numbers of our nuclear warheads and Russia's were wrong.
But, they still amount to about 10,000.
Some of those warheads may STILL be behemouth 100 megaton warheads.

I knew a guy whose brother in lawn was on a nuclear attack submarine in the 70s or early 80s. He described how they had gone on a special op to sidle up to the Kamchatka Peninsula, and be in position for a Soviet test of a 100 megaton explosion.

He did not or would not tell me the mountain(s) that were the site for the test, but explained that whatever they were, they simply disappeared in the detonation of that 100 megatonner. We have fail safes, but those are only as safe as the guys in control. We have a guy with zero impulse control. He is a sociopathic malignant narcissist, so there IS no one else in his mind ... only HIM. Kim Jong Il is notoriously nuts and whacky. Imagine those two in a twitter exchange. The recent incident involving China seizing a naval drone 50miles off the Philippines shows that the Chinese are out there, all the time ... pushing for more ocean. They've been stonked in an international court on those ambitions.

But Kim ... well, the Chinese have also said they will not tolerate a "nuclear exchange on the Korean Peninsula." Pakistan and India each have about 100 nukes. More than enough to turn Southwest Asia into a molten area ... with massive fall out spreading around, setting in motion perhaps a nuclear winter ...

Every thing that can be done to stand in the way of Trump's wrecking crew, e.g., Planned Parenthood (first); abortion rights; a new list of all Muslims in the United States, coming in to the U.S.; destruction of equal opportunity to vote (Chinese texts aren't that far behind for prospective voters); etc., will be worked from January 20 on. The First Reich of Fuhrer Trump. Except the Austrian Corporal was a brilliant if demented thinker. It could be that Trump will fire off some Twitter Storm to Kim Jong Un, and we could find ourselves sending more ground troops to Korea. Cept, we don't really have the military strength to do that now.

Not without calling up ALL REserves, National Guard, and then ... perhaps a renewed Draft. It's there on the books. So, while many of us tried to defeat him in the election, somehow this guy is here. There will be plenty of opportunities for resistance. And resistance must happen. Obama is pulling some rabbits out of his hat at the last minute. The "Dreamers" ... 750,000, are already "registered" as are several million mostly Muslim men. They could be among the first to "go," since Obama tried to give them some security. Many Trumpistas I think do not see our fellow Americans as people. Just card board targets they can cite as "trash" or "problems." 6+ million more Americans have signed up for Obama Care.

Having had excellent health insurance through my federal career; medicare; VA as #3, I've been well cared for. I do not know what it must feel like to have a half million in health related costs (when I nearly died of myocarditis) and my wife's quarter million with her cancer ... and have to think ... how can I pay that? The gift of Obamacare seems the least the rest of us can contribute to. Peace of mind. Is that so wrong to offer our fellow Americans? They're human beings. Not cardboard cutouts. And, we have among us, some undocumented immigrants. Will some of them actually disappear soon? Mass deportations? We'll be here, watching the buses head south, with thousands on them if the Trumpistas have their way? Is Immigration Reform soooo very hard to fashion? Seal off many of the problems with a guided program to give them a chance to register as immigrants ... they get in line ... no line jumping ... or, they leave given a year's time limit to file. But deportations?

Check out the newsreels of massive Nazi round ups during the 30s and 40s of Jews. This will dwarf that exercise. It isn't a bit funny. But, there are so many things to wonder: what will the maniac really do? Plenty of room to resist, I think. A merry Christmas. Happy Hannukah. Solstice. Kwanza. Diwali. Ramadan. And other religious groups in the country of 340-350,000,000 diverse Americans.

The fog is settling ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... ing&wpmm=1


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: alan wagman
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:33 am 
Mr. Milligan: You say Trump has done nothing to be outraged about. Donald Trump has given an implicit seal of approval to hate groups. Trump offered to pay legal expenses for those who beat up dissenters; Trump put Steve Bannon at the top of his campaign and named him for a White House position. Those are strong messages with real world effects. Had your home or church been painted with a swastika, you might be singing a different tune.

AW


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: YelloJeep
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:24 am 
"snip Trump has done nothing to be outraged about"

In actuality, all he has done is say things to get the whackos to vote for him. His vitriolic bluster is marketing. What he does as President remains to be seen. I believe he said he would run this country as if it were a business, hence the business people in his cabinet. We've seen over and over that campaign rhetoric is decidedly different from reality. IE..."Change we can believe in."

The responsibility for his being where he is now rests squarely on the Democrats for not running a viable candidate.

_________________
Steve


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."

Martin Luther King, Jr.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: Bruce
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:32 pm 
Many people are upset, but talking about how upset we are won't do much good. I'm trying to look at the positive side. For example, Trump may be too incompetent to do as much harm as he claims. Electing him is like electing a pair of dice. There's a high degree of randomness in his actions. You can't get much more random than telling China to keep the research drone they seized at the same time they had promised to return it. What would be the worst possible strategy for getting Obama to veto the United Nations resolution criticizing Israel? Telling the current President how to handle the situation. Everyday brings new stories of weirdness, most of them look weird on the bad side. His ignorant statements today about nuclear weapons were certainl a cause for concern.

On the other hand, Trump's presidency forces the issue. Trump will lead to the downfall or the rebirth of the United States. With Hillary Clinton we might have had four years of more or less the same. It will not be the same with Trump. The rebirth might come from Trump being able to do everything he says to make America Great Again. More likely it will come from a backlash against his complete failure to do what he says. One way or the other, things have changed. We need to think about how we can turn this disaster to opportunity.

Bruce


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: lastnoel
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:08 am 
Perhaps another perspective for this 'hate fest'

http://charleseisenstein.net/hategriefandanewstory/

"To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead." ~Thomas Paine


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: JE1947
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:49 pm 
And yes, let's blame the Democrats for not running a viable candidate.
Not sure what this guy means ... she got 63,000,000 votes compared to 60,000,000 for Drumpf.
There's always the record of Grant County giving Ralph Nader a huge vote in 2000; the next time, they voted almost uniformly for Kerry. Of course, Kerry wasn't viable, nor was Gore.
Specious argument, especially if one didn't even bother to vote behind that sentiment.
HRC was far from perfect. But, she was a competent hard working woman.
Easier in Amerika to get an African-American in the White House than a comptetent woman.
Far, far too many American men (and stupid women) are threatened by a competent woman.
We also know that Assange, via plenty of leaks from Russian cyber spies, dumped every bit of garbage they could on her ... and drowned out t he need for vital discussions on topics of interest.
But, it's o.k., I guess. Perhaps with White House internal security cameras & mikes, Donald will forget where he is and grab a pxxxy ... how can he stop? Really? A life long habit of "having his way" with beautiful women ...how can he stop that?
Roy Cohn. Read about his record.
Sort of like Gollum slinking around waiting for the ring to come back into his hands. That's Trump.
Whether he is an idiot or a fool, he has NO experience for the White House.
We all will have moments of fear, perhaps terror, angst, nausea, incredulousness ... the man lives in a 100' tall closet. All surfaces have various renditions of one word: TRUMP.
In bangles, baubles, diamonds, platinum, gold, silver ... shimmering ... flashing day glo and neon ... Trump. TRUMP. TRUMP!
There is no other name that can properly be admitted to this closet.
His mind knows that closet and that name.
The names of 360,000,000 Americans would never be allowed.
ONLY Trump.
Certainly, never, ever, "God what would you have me do?"
Preposterous to ever think such a thought has entered his mind since birth.
The First Reich begins 20 January, 2017.
We'll see what Executive Orders and Memos he signs.
I imagine he'll have a busy day.
John Toland's "Hitler" provides some great examples of what the Austrian Corporal did in 1933 when he out manuvered all other candidates, bluffed his way to becoming Chancellor, and then ... it was all over.
Maybe not.
Maybe he'll be a great guy. Just a bxllshxtter.
Something tells me ... no, he will try to do whatever he wants. It will be the Democrats fault though. Whatever he does ... it's all on the Democrats putting up a lame candidate.
thank you to the 63,000,000 who voted for Hillary.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/co ... nsA&wpmm=1


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: almilligan
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:16 pm 
Clinton 63,000,000 votes, Trump 60,000,000 votes. Clinton gets more votes but that was not the game. The game was to get the most electoral votes.

Team A gains 400 yards in a football game and team B gains 200 yards in the same game who wins? The team with the most points not the most yards because that's not the game.

If Clinton was trying to get the highest popular vote she was playing the wrong game.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: elektron
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:23 am 
Al makes a good point.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: gorwest
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:52 am 
You mean in that the game has an odd method of scoring?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: almilligan
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:25 am 
If the electoral college bothers some of you, you should go wild on how we elect the U.S. Senate. Every state no matter how little population gets 2 senators. A senator from California represents about 32,000,000 while a senator from Wyoming represents only about 600,000 yet their votes in the Senate count exactly the same the same.

If you think the electoral college is undemocratic you should think the same about the U.S. Senate.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: JE1947
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:32 pm 
Wikipedia states 50-57 megaton were used for tsar bomb.
What deterred further testing speculations. At this point, in a climate grossly different than 1961, any nuclear exchanges, among nuclear holders: china; france; india; israel; pakistan; russia; south africa; united kingdom; united states (esp. US under maniac) would be severely destructive. The megaton age difference won't matter w 21st century climate damage. All the angels can can dance on the heads of pin pickers. Great for American leadersip.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: crow
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:33 am 
This conversation has taken a plunge into denial, if you think Trump hasn't done anything yet than you're not paying attention. Only one of my questions has been alluded to and that was "Trump has pledged to run the country like a business so he has, with senate approval appointed business people". First a good government for the people is not a business and cannot be run like a business, a business sells goods and/or services in hopes of making a profit. The country is a collective who hire, through various means, managers who's job it is to make sure that the people's financial contribution (taxes) are allocated to infrastructure, both built and natural and providing services to the less fortunate, so that businesses may thrive and people can access those natural preserves and services.

When the manager we hire and the sub-managers (department secretaries) he hires claim that they will run the gov like a business, ask them who will be getting the profits and where will the profit will be coming from, the tax payers? These people Trump hopes will lead the departments are from the deep cesspool and are the biggest liars and exploiters of human labor as I've pointed out above. Draining a swamp while feeding a cesspool is a bad thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: Azima Lila Forest
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:43 am 
Al, regarding the system of 2 senators per state: that's why we have two bodies of the US Congress, one with equal representation for each state (Senate), and one by population (House). Seems right to me! CA used to have the same (by county and by population), but then when southern CA got more population than northern, they had enough votes to get both houses by population. So now southern CA controls the state. That's how so much of the water in northern CA got diverted to the south. Argh. You can guess where i came from!

_________________
Azima Lila Forest
www.zianet.com/azima
azima@zianet.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: Bruce
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:45 pm 
It's possible to dislike both the electoral college and the method of choosing Senators. You don't have to choose which is more unfair. But if you do weigh the unfairness of each, the electoral college is far worse.

We are one nation, the United States. We are not the united States. We should vote for one president as individuals, not as members of our states. Everyone's votes should be equal, and a few battleground states should not get most of the attention during a campaign. If we are to weigh ourselves collectively, it should be as members of constituencies, not as members of states. Old people in Arizona and New Mexico should count the same as old people in Florida (they don't). Rural people should count the same in Wyoming as in Iowa. Urban people should count the same in Missouri or New York. In addition, the winner-take-all system used in 48 states disenfranchises conservatives in liberal states and liberals in conservative states. And that's not even to discuss the ridiculously long campaigns, the bad primary system, or big money in campaign donations. The system didn't produce the two most qualified or popular candidates. We need complete electoral reform to achieve the fairness of presidential electoral systems in other countries.

The way we choose Senators is also unfair. California's population is 66 times more than that of Wyoming, the state with the smallest population. But it's difficult to think of a practical solution. The system would be more fair if we broke the country up into regions with similar population and elected Senators from those equal regions. But eliminating states is almost unthinkable. In fact, many Senators think of themselves and act as representatives of the country rather than just of their states. The influence of Senators is usually related to their outlook and seniority, not the population of their state. I can think of several ways to improve Senate representation, but they are impractical.

The electoral system is a lot more broken than the Senatorial system. Also, the unfairness of the Senate works in our favor. New Mexico is a small state, which gives us an unfair advantage in the Senate and in the electoral college. I personally would be wiling to trade our advantage for more fair systems, but it's hard to persuade legislators to vote to give up their advantage. I'd rather work on reforming the electoral college than the senatorial system. But such a reform needs to happen in a non-election year. You can't just complain because you lost in a system where everyone knew the rules in advance.

Bruce


Last edited by Bruce on Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: almilligan
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:24 pm 
Bruce when you said "We need complete electoral reform to achieve the fairness of presidential electoral systems in other countries." What countries did you have in mind? Mexico, Republic of the Congo, Brazil? These countries have presidents with power.

Most of the countries we feel close to, Canada, Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Israel have a parliamentary system. Most don't have presidents, they have prime ministers and those that do the president has almost no power.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: samarpan
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:04 pm 
Does the electoral college vote mean Trump is president, or that he is president-elect? If Trump is officially president now, does that mean the inauguration is not necessary? I don't think Barack Hussein Obama officially stopped being president on Dec. 20, 2016. I think Barack Hussein Obama is officially president and Trump won't be president until Jan. 20, 2017.

President Obama just permanently removed parts of the Arctic and Atlantic from offshore oil drilling. He just set a single-day record of 153 commutations and 78 pardons. I hope Obama takes similar executive actions related to immigration, marriage equality, reproductive rights, criminal justice, equal pay, etc. before he leaves. Trump is not official yet and a lot of good things can happen in President Obama's last days... and President Obama's last full day in the White House will be on Jan. 19, 2017.


Last edited by samarpan on Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: rearnheart
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:15 pm 
Just to be clear...the Electoral College didn't elect Trump. James Comey elected Trump. This is the opinion of the NSA and I agree with them. The involvement of the Director of the FBI in this election was unprecedented. By disregarding the head of the Justice Department to not engage the public so soon before the election, Comey created a 'reasonable doubt' in the electorate. While it cannot be established that this single action was responsible for the outcome of the election, it was good enough for the NSA to indicate that this was tantamount to influencing (deck stacking) the election.
This was not an election. This was a slow motion coup that took place right before our eyes.
As has been said, we should not 'normalize' Donald Trump. To do so would mean that all the things he said and did during the campaign 'don't count'. He is not 'a different man' now, nor will he ever be 'a different man'. By his actions, he is not qualified to the President of the United States. By the votes cast, he is not qualified to be the President of the United States. By the votes he received from the Electoral College, he is not qualified to be President of the United States. Winning these votes will not change the character of the man. Still, to his supporters, he is very, very, popular. But so was slavery before the Civil War.
r.earnheart


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: n2ic
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:20 pm 
Until the 17th amendment, ratified in 1913, the election of Senators was even less democratic. Before that, Senators were chose exclusively by each state's legislature.

Since we now have direct election of Senators by the people, doesn't it follow that we should have direct election of our President, too ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: JE1947
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:52 pm 
First, roughly 70,000,000 of us voted for other than Trump. Roughly: 63,000,000 for HRC. 4.5 for Johnson. 1.5 for Stein. 500,000 for McMullin. about 1,000,000 for all other splinter parties. So, that much is certain. 70,000,000 of US didn't want that swine in the White House for anything.

Second, there may have been games somewhere, but they've not be discovered.

Third, that means roughly 130,000,000 of us voted for someone.

Fourth, 100,000,000 failed to vote.
How many were Sandersistas, I don't know.
I think it would be interesting if whoever posts, at least declare who they voted for.
Or did not.
100,000,000 not voting is pretty pathetic.
Too boring, too twisted, too rigged, too this, too that ... man ... all of that razmataz just to avoid taking part in America.
January 20, the spelling will change: AmeriKA.

The list of people Trump has submitted for his cabinet indicates to me that he will push the envelope on a plutocracy as far as he can. If a lawsuit by ACLU or others must be initiated to get him to deal with divesting, I hope they fire it out like a canon. Waiting will be what he hopes for.
This man, by all his statements (and each nomination is a statement) despises the government that feels it has a role in caring for those lesser of our group.

"What you do for the least among you, you do for me," is laughable to a guy like Trump.

But, it's also become laughable for plenty of people other than Trump. Generally in one Party. Which has become more selfish,less open to looking after their brother & sister in need (really, they doubt that state exists, so why worry about that because they're all phonies, anyway). Get them out of the way. Southern Strategy has brought us to the worst race relations in 50 years.

And now, perhaps, living here, we will watch buses coming south to Deming, with loads of undocumented "aliens."

Or, there will be more and more trucks, cars, vans, with home goods strapped to the top, and Mexicans headed for Palomas ... get out ahead of the purges.

Is that not what the man has not promised!!!

Is he not clear!!!

He does not get a Presidential Daily Brief I suspect because the FBI & CIA have told him privately, sir, there are too many unanswereds in your background check for you to receive a full PDB. Not for awhile. Let one of your generals tell you what your options are, if HE can get TS/SCI/SAR clearance!!!

Sir, you have appointed men and women with little or no government experience, OR, are at war with the agencies you ask them to head.
Is that not clear enough?

To gut our government?

And if plutocratic ways are instituted, one of the finest, most corrupt free civil service systems in the history of the world will begin to be suspect.
Things, services, will be for sale.
We will slide farther.

The Environment is a joke.
A Chinese hoax, "climate change."
The insane stuff that comes from a man who communicates via Twitter is in and of itself, so reprehensible as to be mind blowing.
Too bad someone didn't give Trump some LSD-25 years ago.
It either would have left him insane(r), or, maybe opened his head.
But, the White House and Cabinet will be a joke ... but the seriousness of this man taking over this country is far from a joke.

It is a travesty.
Trumpistas may be surprised just what he will do.
And some of that will come back, not just on Trumpistas, but on us all. It is inevitable.
Resistance must be initiated in many non violent ways, 1-21-2017. None of it may make a difference.

But we have had too many leaders say "shame on you for not trying ..."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: lastnoel
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:12 am 
Seems to me the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and I took an oath to uphold it. No one has released me from that oath.

We have had programmers testify that they wrote code and hacked voting machines, it is pretty much accepted that Hillary rigged the primaries to get rid of Bernie and it has been reported that the popular vote was tampered with, by the way does anyone know why dead people mostly vote democrat? My local poll watcher turned away a number of people who tried, but had not right to vote.

The only way you can steal an election is if the tallies are close (Bush/Gore). The popular vote was far more different than we are being told - look at the recounts and the numbers of votes Hillary lost in Detroit. Don't get me wrong, both sides rig the vote, but this year was outrageous.

Here is a good article on what is needed to shift the system http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-2 ... sage-trump

. . . and from another CIA agent

“We have to create culture, don’t watch TV, don’t read magazines, don’t even listen to NPR. Create your own roadshow. The nexus of space and time where you are now is the most immediate sector of your universe, and if you’re worrying about Michael Jackson or Bill Clinton or somebody else, then you are disempowered, you’re giving it all away to icons, icons which are maintained by an electronic media so that you want to dress like X or have lips like Y. This is shit-brained, this kind of thinking. That is all cultural diversion, and what is real is you and your friends and your associations, your highs, your orgasms, your hopes, your plans, your fears. And we are told ‘no’, we’re unimportant, we’re peripheral. ‘Get a degree, get a job, get a this, get a that.’ And then you’re a player, you don’t want to even play in that game. You want to reclaim your mind and get it out of the hands of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half-baked moron consuming all this trash that’s being manufactured out of the bones of a dying world.”
– Terence McKenna


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: SMB
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:04 pm 
As someone who was a poll watcher for the Democratic Party (I was at the County Admin Building), I have a problem with the statement by lastnoel that s/he witnessed a poll watcher turning away voters where they were.
Poll watchers do not determine who votes and have no power to turn away voters. As a poll watcher, I and my Republican counterpart were there to make sure that anyone who was qualified to vote could vote and that anyone who was not eligible to vote did not vote. This is accomplished by addressing the issue to the precinct judge who makes that determination, not the poll watcher. I can only speak for the training that I received from the Democratic Party, but, in my manual and in the video that I was given for training, it was made very clear that my focus was to be on the side of making sure that all eligible voters were able to cast their ballots but that I myself had no power to deter anyone from voting. I could communicate with the poll officials and call lawyers who could advise me on what to say or do to help the process. As a poll watcher, I was mainly there to witness the proceedings and report on them if they did not seem fair. If lastnoel witnessed such behavior by a poll watcher, s/he should have reported it to the precinct judge.
Or is lastnoel mistakenly calling the precinct judge a poll watcher?
Sharon Bookwalter


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: almilligan
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:25 pm 
rearmheart:

If Ms Clinton had not had her private server James Comey and his FBI would never have had a reason to be involved in making statements of any kind about her.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: gorwest
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:54 am 
If some Congressmen had not been obsessed with wasting taxpayer money trying to convict Clinton of something... anything... the server would never had been an issue.

How far do you want to go down the rabbit hole?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: elektron
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:58 am 
I see that an appeals court has just now reversed a lower court ruling on the issue, saying two government agencies should have done more to recover the emails. This revives the private email issue. I agree with Al. The private email server is the root cause of Mrs. Clinton's problems on this topic.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: alan wagman
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:37 am 
May we never have another election like the one just past. But, it is the past. Time to take what lessons can be learned and move forward.

Perhaps the anthem for the coming days is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=941PHEJHCwU

Is it the case that Dylan expressed bitterness where Patti Smith expresses pain? Or is it the case that I was (we were?) bitter then and I am (we are?) pained now?

Bitterness has a hopeless quality, rooted in impending death -- fitting for a song written when the author thought the world was ending -- but pain is what drives us to realize that it is not given to us to finish the task, but we must take up la lucha que seguirá, siempre (the struggle which will continue, forever).

And let's make sure Dylan got it backwards: We were so much younger then; can we be wiser than that now?

Here's one path forward:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... -23_v1.pdf

AW


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: JE1947
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:52 pm 
Here I thought we might be done with this kind of insanity. Whether 1 megaton or 50 or 57 or 100 (not practical THEN - 1961), it seems a shame that two guys ... Putin & Trump ... both with between 8-10,000 warheads ... have recently spoken out about the use of nuclear weapons, modernizing their armaments ... I lived through the Cold War near a SAC base. It was not a theoretical proposition. In South Korea, 60,000 American troops were seen (including me), as a "trip wire" for another massive invasion by the North. Fighting another land war in Korea will just about do in our economy. We don't have endless wars to dilly dally with.

Always reassuring to know that we now have a nimble brained 70 year old who could Twitter us into a stand off ... what a let down after decades of various presidents working to reduce nuclear war's possibilities.

It will not be a thrilling four years from where I sit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcW_Ygs6hm0


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: sh1
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:56 am 
Alan's link to the "Indivisible" guide is very useful. Regardless of all the great things we'd like to advocate for, in the coming years we are going to be presented with many, many extremely negative proposals, executive actions and laws from Washington. We need to be coordinated, steadfast, and hardworking to push back against that tide in every way we can. The "Indivisible" folks' recommendations are wise and realistic. Get ready to play defense at that level, even if we can hope for more at the local level. Shelby


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: lastnoel
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:36 pm 
In my early morning wanderings through the echo chamber of the internet I came across an interesting person named Simon Sinek who has a number of really compelling videos on relevant subjects. This one makes some interesting observations about Trump https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdPTSqltiVk and the fickle finger points at us.

"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing"-oriented society to a "person"-oriented society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism and militarism are incapable to being conquered." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: factoted
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:22 am 
Here's an article that gives me some sense for what happened and where things are headed - a glimmer of hope for the future maybe.
http://charleseisenstein.net/hategriefandanewstory/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: ynotwrite2
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:02 am 
an accident happened to me a few years ago, and I started reading biographies of American revolutionaries and presidents : b. Franklin, John Adams, T Jefferson, alexander Hamilton, G Washington, Benedict Arnold, Andrew Jackson, and now U S Grant. Was there a take-away message in all of these? Fate, relatives, personality all played an immense role in who they were as people with political power. Each of these willingly assumed a straight jacket of one sort or another to get, keep and to perpetuate power, temporal power as they saw it. to my mind there's no reasonable way to simplify the challenges they faced, what their dreams and fears were, and how they played out in what happened or didn't. One thing I can state with close to certainty is they all dealt with defeat, compromise, despair, and then they were replaced by someone else who faced the same. Sometimes they were replaced because they retired, lost the election, death , and what they worked for was conditioned by shifting culture, technology, patterns of migration and foreign conflict and alliances. With the Donald its likely to be little different. Be calm, work for your beliefs and no matter who is our leader of the moment we can and will prevail.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: ynotwrite2
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:00 am 
to factoted,
this one caught my eye:http://charleseisenstein.net/wood-metal-and-the-story-of-the-world/
it also seemed appropriate.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: almilligan
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:15 pm 
Finally some words of reason


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: bobstockdale
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:19 am 
Putin Trumped Clinton and the Robber Barons have captured the White House with a madman at the helm. Looking in the eyes of Trump and Putin, we see many similarities. Both are devoid of compassion and morality. Both are intensely alone. Both have an intense compulsion to win. The difference is that Putin is a remorseless, calculating, stone cold killer; Trump hasn't been there yet. Trump's praise of Putin is reminiscent of Hitler's praise of Stalin in the late 1930's. Vladimir Putin's grandfather was Joseph Stalin's cook.
Let's move the conversation on to causes, consequences, and cures.

The baby boomers were born into the most energetic time and place in all of human history. They call themselves consumers. Raised in a culture before the internet, a high percentage of baby boomers were easily duped by Putin's propaganda machine. Most of them still believe in the American Dream, even if they're no longer living it. Make America great again? Great can be a very cunning word. Used without context, it keys positive memories unique to each person. It's a bit like verbal MSG.

Beginning in the mid 1960's, the baby boomers entered the first generation of widespread birth control when it was almost exclusively responsible, educated liberals who used it and failed to raise the next generation of responsible, educated liberals to vote in our last election. Voter demographics bear this out. Next was the generation born into the first age of the internet. The internet has enabled an immense increase in the availability of knowledge, but it has also enabled an immense increase in the availability of misinformation, false assumptions, and a variety of mass insanities. This was also the generation born into the age of video games. A large percentage of this generation have spent a major portion of their lives in fictitious realities and are severely lacking in their awareness of the actual reality that's going on around them.

The next generation is entering an age of war between tyranny and transparency. This is the generation that will need to deal with the demise of the democracies. The American Revolution, just like any revolution, was about limiting the power of the wealthy. It required that a sufficient percentage of the population be intelligent, educated, practical, and responsible enough to pull it off and sustain a viable government in the aftermath. Most revolutions fail. The intellectual de-evolutions of the first generation of birth control and the age of video games, and the inevitable bureaucratic alzymers of large institutions have been major factors in our inability to sustain a viable government and, along with many of the world's democracies, we are defaulting to the power of money. The final demise of a democracy is marked by the loss of the free press. Turkey is no longer a democracy, and a number of others are spinning down the drain; sucked in by ignorance and fear.

The robber barons have sucked up most of the money, and they're not spending it on what this civilization needs to sustain itself. The current output of the industry of capitalism is pouring our wealth into the landfill at an ever increasing rate. Capitalism led by the oligarchs is eating us alive.

We need to understand how our money has been concentrated into the control of so few. We gave it to them. We bought the trillions of tons of cheap, disposable stuff that their advertising conned us into buying. We put our money into the stock market. What most of our money bought came back ever so briefly on it's way to the landfill, but a lot of it was steadily siphoned off by the robber barons.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Author: factoted
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:01 am 
Yes, ynotwrite - good article for sure. Is a president really a president or just a symbol of something that may or may not exist.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:

Gila River Festival Ad


Silver City & Southwestern New Mexico Monthly Community Calendar

Click To Create A New Calendar Event
<<

Community Events
Week of November 23, 2017

>>

23
Arte Chicano de San Vicente @ SC Museum
Our Paws' Cause Thrift Store
Volunteer at The Bike Works 3-7pm
Tai Chi at Lotus Center
Blooming Lotus Meditation
Pet Central Thrift Store
Our Paws' Cause Thrift Store
24
Arte Chicano de San Vicente @ SC Museum
Qi Gung for Health at the Lotus Center
Fiber Arts Collective's Holiday Fiber Art Sale
Holiday Fiber Art Sale
Women's Al-Anon Meeting: Women Embracing Recovery
Pet Central Thrift Store
Hapkido Class
Community Bike Ride @ The Bike Works
Our PAws' Cause Thrift Store
25
Arte Chicano de San Vicente @ SC Museum
Tai Chi Chuan
Fiber Arts Collective's Holiday Fiber Art Sale
Shop Small Saturday
Lighted Christmas Parade
Ecstatic Dance
26
Arte Chicano de San Vicente @ SC Museum
New Hope Al-Anon Family Group
27
Hapkido Class
Tai Chi Chuan
Laughter Yoga at 1 p.m. at the Lotus Center
28
Arte Chicano de San Vicente @ SC Museum
Silver City Rotary Club Meeting
International Folk Dancing
Hapkido Class
Compassionate Friends Gathering
Tai Chi at Lotus Center
Wine & The Word @The Toad Brewery
Creative Writing for Beginners-free workshop
ToSC Council Meeting- Agenda
Our Paws' Cause Thrift Store
29
Arte Chicano de San Vicente @ SC Museum
Hapkido Class
Tai Chi Chuan
Insight Buddhist Meditation
Gin Rummy
Wednesday Evening Al-Anon Family Group Meeting
Concert Band of the Southwest “Not Just A Holiday Concert”










News     Columns     Food: Growing, Fixing     Features     Water     Health     Business     Education     DIY & How-tos     Classifieds     Forum     Home 
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group